Re: TSR blacklist

[q-funk@megacom.net (Martin-Eric Racine)]

 >> I'm really getting tired of utilities that try to cram everything in;
 >> currently, I have several applications that all duplicate each other
 >> on one function or the other, all because some basic things were not
 >> included in the basic OS.
 
[list of features]
   
 >> should have been integrated into the AES features by standard. Since
 >
 >So you're expecting 1995-features in a OS designed in 1984?

The last AES version dates from 1994...

 >extensions to the AES would have been nice. The problem is that nobody
 >really use them. How many apps do you see that use MultiTOS-like toolbars,
 >which has been around for several years?

Nobody ever uses them, because everyone insists on supporting TOS 1.0
in their applications... so they end up integrating custom libraries. 

Every time a GEM application specifically requires AES 4.1 or better,
half the Atari community complains it won't work on their 520 STM...

IMHO, it's about time we start making use of AES 4.1 and 030 features,
releasing stuff that specifically makes use of newer qualities.

Linux 68k and NetBSD-Atari already require a 030 as minimum and I never
heard anybody complain, so why should modern GEM programs be expected to
always work on a old 520 ST?

 >> IMHO, it's about time N.AES and MagiC people sit down and draft specs
 >> on what new system calls should be added, then release a Compendium II
 >> to document the new functions.
 >
 >I'm afraid that means that ASH will push their wdialog-extension, 

Well... ASH should have revised the innards of MagiC to follow MiNT
practices, once Atari adopted it as THE standard...

 >> Already, NEWSie tries to have its own window topper; Thing, xUFSL and
 >> Wdialog each have their own fontselector, etc. 
 >
 >The point is that there are good and established protocols available, 
 >but lots of programmers ignore/doesn't know about them. 
 
Precisely why I'm saying there's a need for a "Compendium II".

 >> There are too many incompatible and duplicated functions and protocols. 
 >> It's got to stop.  Let's have the MagiC, Milan and N.AES people sit down
 >> together and write a new standard AES library. It's badly needed. NOW.
 >
 >No it's not. The last thing we need is yet another protocol or API. 

Read my original post again. 

My point is, there are protocols that duplicate each other. I NEVER
said anything about reinventing the wheel...

 We have to sit down and weed out the worst ones, before writing
 the new book of modern Atari protocols...
 
 ...Modern Atari Protocols (TM) there's our title!
 
 >should start using what we already have (AV, OLGA, FONTSELECT, DHST,
 >BubbleGEM...) instead of insisting on making 100% self-contained apps
 >that works on floppy-based 1.00 machines. 

Please re-read my initial post. This is EXACTLY what I'm saying.

 >I've been thinking about putting together a web-site with descriptions of
 >all the modern, powerful, *existing* protocols we have, perhaps this is a
 >good time to start...

Ohhh! Coolness! You're volunteering?! ;-)

 >Basically, I disagree with your first argument (designing a new,
 >multi-purpose AES-extension),
 
Which, if you read again, is not at all what I said.

 >but agree with your second (collecting existing docs into one single,
 >consistent document.) What happened to Thomas Much's "TOS-Book"?

Lack of time to write the document, AFAIK.


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Martin-Eric Racine          # The Atari TT030 Homepage and FAQ #
FUNKYWARE CREATIONS inc.    http://www.megacom.net/~q-funk/TT030
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