Re: [MiNT] wind_set(WF_TOPMOST)

[Odd Skancke <ozk@atari.org>]

tor, 13,.04.2006 kl. 21.49 +0200, skrev olivier.landemarre@utbm.fr:
> ...
> > > >
> > > > I dont quite agree here. I think that this feature should be reserved
> > > >for system-applications only, such as a taskbar/manager, etc.
> > > >
> > > How do you define system-application? For example taskbar is a simple
> > > gem application for me.
> >
> >  N.AES introduced a function appl_control(). I see that XaAES have a
> > mode APC_SYSTEM, which lets a gem application be a AES system extension,
> > altho I dont know the details.
> 
> I not implement it yet, but I don't know the usefull of it, if a program simply
> wan't to do an WF_TOPMOST it just do before an appl_control(), and I don't know
> how we could restrict it.

 I think one the purposes of a APC_SYSTEM class application is that it
has more access than normal application to system information/features.
One of these would be access to 'floating' windows, where there are no
restrictions whatsoever compared to normal windows.

> >
> >  Let me get this 100% correct; You do mean that these windows are never
> > getting covered by 'normal' windows, they always 'float' ontop of the
> > 'normal' ones? In which case, if more apps that absolutely necessary use
> > these types of windows, we end up with having two layers of windows, and
> > the whole idea gets lost. Plus you have to maintain two window stacks.
> > Are there any restrictions as to how many such windows one app can open?
> Actually I have only one stack and not plan to add one, there is no more
> restriction in number than the totaly windows open.

 Well, it doesnt matter how you administer this, a second stack or a
flag indicating window-type. Main thing is that you get two layers of
windows when there are no restriction to these things.

> 
> >
> > >
> > > > Anyone else have opinions on this matter?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Yes, need opinion.
> >
> >  I think we need to carefully consider what such a feature will solve.
> > Which application, or what situations, would need a window that isnt an
> > alert, a popup or a normal window? Now, alerts and popups are completely
> > controlled by the AES, and carefully extending these existing 'window
> > classes', we can make sure we get a clear and good GUI. I do agree that
> > 'floating' windows are necessary in some cases, such as for a
> > taskmanager, taskbar and other AES system extensions. I also think that
> > when a 'normal' application have something important to tell the user,
> > it should use alerts. Users can then decide if they want the alerts to
> > 'float' over all windows, or just over the alert-callers windows.
> >
> But alert and popup are not funny for display, you can't manage window as you
> wan't, can't put gem object on it, can't simply display a message for a short
> time (because you wait alway's for clos something) etc...

 This is what I am afraid of. Just because of looks you want to do this.
Now, every application author want their app to look OK, and what do you
think happens? Allowing this on 'floating' windows to all apps will, as
I stated above, only create a second layer of windows. I do not
understand why a normal GEM application needs to force a window to be
topmost unless its an alert or popup. Only stuff like AES system
exstensions should use such features. For example, I had plans to use
such feature for menubar, so it can 'float' above any other window
anywhere on screen according to users settings. Taskbars would be
placeable anywhere, and task-lists/managers etc. would always be
accessible no matter what happens with the normal windows. If you go
ahead and let any app open any number of 'second layer' windows, I would
think we need a third one for the 'system purpose'. And then I think we
complicate things beyond what is necessary. 

> ex anyplayer play a list of music, it change of title, it could for 3 second the
> title of the song, some software write time in hard in menu, probably it could
> be better to be above menu bar, bubble could be display, a lot of softawre open
> a window in top, to inform of the load of the software (not in our world!) 
> etc... Most of time for a short time.

 This is perfectly possible with normal windows, unless I miss the
point. Which is very possible because I dont think I fully understand
what you mean here :)


 Any AES application authors here who can speak their thoughts? I think
the fancyness of this feature vanishes as more and more apps put their
windows in the 'second layer' leaving us with a 'new apps windows in the
second layer and old apps windows in the normal layer' situation where
it is impossible to get the window of an older app to the top. Ofcourse
this is worst case scenario, but without restrictions, a very open one.
 

 Best Regards,
Odd Skancke