Re: [MiNT] OSMD vs. KGMD

[milarb@volny.cz (Bohdan Milar)]

On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:56:17 +0200, Guido Flohr wrote:

Hi,

> On Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 10:10:14PM +0100, Bohdan Milar wrote:
> >
> > As I wrote earlier, here is my report about segmenting the KGMD into
> > original parts. I separated sources into different directories and
> > added man-pages to the bin packages. I also moved the binaries inside
> > the package to (I hope) correct fhs folders (so no /usr/etc,
> > usr/ucb). I am going to build two (bin+src if available) rpm packages
> > from each KGMD package (e.g. free, GNU-time, ...). So, for example,
>
> Good luck but you won't get far with that approach.  The sources that come
> with KGMD are mostly polluted with patches which aren't necessary any
> longer.  A lot of stuff will not even compile.

OK, I know.


> I would rather make dummy rpms from the compiled binaries and distribute
> the original sources and patches into /usr/share/doc/[PACKAGENAME] as part
> of the documentation.  There is really no point in trying to compile these
> completely outdated programs.

I am not going to compile anything. I just want to stick to the rules 
of spreading binaries with their source code. I like your idea to add 
those funcionally useless files to the binary package as a 
documentation. If nobody has a better idea or a good reason to make 
separate src.rpm files I am going to reorganize the packages.


> > KGMD package inetd looks like this on my harddisk:
> > /.../inetd-01/usr/sbin/inetd
> > /.../inetd-01/usr/share/man/man8/inetd.8.gz
> > The following text is a list of the original packages with my
> > comments. Generally I would like to know your comments to my
> > comments. And in definite terms:
> >
> > - In the packages with a SpareMiNT equivalent, are the file present
> > in KGMD and missing in SpareMiNT (mkfifo, mknod) really important?
>
> mkfifo and mknod never worked, they were pure fake.  Omit them, so that
> nobody gets fooled into thinking that they could be used.

Ok - I removed them.


> The same applies to mount.
>
> > - Are the files which are in a collision with a file of the same name
> > but from another packages (typically csize and fmt) really the same?
>
> Huh? What do you mean exactly?
>
> csize is obsolete, package mintbin provides all necessary stuff.

OK - I remove csize and mount (and mount_mfs ?) from minixfs. But 
what about umount and nohog.acc ?


> > - Are the files listed in "Compiler - files missing in SpareMiNT"
> > necessary for programmers? (Thus shall I include them to OSMD?)
>
> Maybe somebody can answer the question if you care to reveal /which/ files
> are listed there...


I hope the list was at the end of my message, but if not...:

/usr/bin/bpatch
/usr/bin/cflgs
/usr/bin/cstk
/usr/bin/fixstk
/usr/bin/printstk
/usr/bin/size68
/usr/bin/sym-ld
/usr/bin/toglclr


> > - Are there more complete (incl. man pages, sources, ...) or newer
> > versions of the KGMD parts which are not in SpareMiNT? (I know about
> > virtual consoles for example) Where can I find them?
>
> No idea.

I hoped you help me with this.


> > - Any ideas about software neither in KGMD nor in SpareMiNT but (yet
> > ported for MiNT) should be included in a new distribution (adduser,
> > fetchmail)?
>
> adduser should be included in shadow-utils.

I see, you are right. It is there... Well, do you have tips to 
another useful MiNT soft which is not yet in SpareMiNT's rpm?


> > - Should I use the old (KGMD) init-1.4.1 or the new (SpareMint's)
> > mintinit? (there were problems to force virtual console running with
> > anything else than init.prg from init-1.4.1)
>
> mintinit (Sparemint) is not really working.  Furthermore there are no
> initscripts for SysV init available.  You will have to stick with
> init-1.4.1.

I plan to use init-1.4.1 because everyone knows it, it is compatible 
with other soft (Draco's shutdown, GEM-init, ...). But there is a 
person, Petr Svacina, in the Czech Republic, who forced mintinit to 
work. He made copies of his system backup (tar.gz) for me and other 
Czech people. Nevertheless I had no time to test it yet. But I can 
send the list of the archive and any config file to anybody 
interested. (Not the whole archive because it is about 70 MB).


> > - I found some KGMD packages (namely init and MiNT-Tols) not very
> > logical in their structure (it is different than their Linux
> > equivalents). In other cases single files from KGMD are on Linux
>
> This is because Linux is not a synonym for Unix in general.

I know this, but I do not know the other systems as much as Linux. 
That's the reason I ask.


> As for the
> complete init suite of KGMD you should only modify the init scripts but
> you should not change their location.  Otherwise you will prevent a smooth
> update to a future SysV compatible init suite.

OK, thanks for this info. I will only change the location of the 
files when it is something like /usr/etc or /usr/ucb. In addition I 
think init.prg should be somewhere on the unix partition and not in 
c:\mint\.

And what about halt, passwd, finger and talk? There is one of each in 
init-1.4.1 and another in halt+reboot, npasswd, finger resp. ntalk. 
Which should I use?

And the config files from /etc ? I am going to use mine based on 
FreeMiNT documentation and e.g. your text about rpm-3.0.2 (passwd and 
group examples). Should I also use some configs from Linux?


> > grouped in a package (e.g. rsh, rlogin, rcp). So I suggest to
> > reorganize them at the end of the text. Are my proposals correct? Any
> > other proposals?
>
> You can safely group all r-tools in one package so that reasonable users
> can get rid of that rubbish with just one command. ;-)

OK.


> Most Sparemint packages are built from Redhat packages.  It therefore
> makes sense to pack your binaries alike as this will simplify an update,
> once the corresponding Redhat package has been ported to MiNT.  Silly
> example: Package inetd together with init and people will hate you once
> either inetd or init is available as a real rpm because they will be
> forced to manually rescue half of your package.

Yes, that's just it! That's why I ask here. I do not know much about 
all the unix software (aspecially the low system services and whole 
network) So please send me every single opinion to the list I 
presented here or to my ideas shown in the next message.


> One word to Sparemint vs. Redhat: ... If you need a starting point for
> new Sparemint rpms better go to Redhat's than SuSE's because Redhat
> generally make much more effort to ensure that their packages will build
> and work on a wide range of systems.

Thanks for this note which should be useful for programmers. 
(Unfortunatelly) I study economics and the most complicated thing I 
can do in unix is writing shell scripts, not porting SW. I just saw 
SpareMiNT as a great product on the market. It took much effort and 
can bring even much more benefit (non-financial of course, but 
economics is in the first place about utility and not about money; 
unfortunatelly even many economists don't know it) to many users. It 
missed only two things: a modern hardware to work on (I hope some of 
great new Atari emulators will be published soon) and the 
installation kit. So I took my Falcon, KGMD, SpareMiNT and the power 
of my new 900 MHz AMD+Linux and started to prepare OSMD.

> Ciao
>
> Guido

Regards,
		Bohdan Milar