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Re: MiNT TO UNIX
> I do not agree with Annius that
> > "Re: If MiNT goes UNIX then Atari goes down the Trash Can (remember that?)"
>
> Different people has different preferences, and there is going to be
> many ordinary GEM/MULTITOS/MiNT users left which are perfectly happy
> with their TOSfs systems. MiNT is such an improvement, even to
^^^^^
I don't see what file system types should have to do with the more basic
choice for a general attitude towards a system as a whole (such as: how
do we solve the what-can-be-found-where problem.)
I think you understand perfectly well what my title means. It means that
if Atari users get more and more used to UNIX software they will in the
end (when they finally upgrade their STEs) buy something from a different
manufacturer. Atari's TOS is one of the parts that should make you like
the machine. If you don't, then what makes you want to stick to Atari
(and don't come up with the argument about your STE, because really, I should
like to see your reaction when a PC user says he sticks to WordPerfect because
it runs well on his 286).
> ordinary TOS users, and not everybody wants to put their data under
> some obscure, unknown new file format (though superior in many ways).
Oh, I wasn't talking about obscure, new formats. I was just suggesting that
we might come up with something INTERESTING instead of the boring ancient
UNIX path structures (think of the SCRAP directory, i.e. something more
Mac-ish).
> He also said:
> > You're not going to admit in your next letter that you are satisfied
> > with a 80x25 column terminal screen, are you?
>
> No, but given the size of the standard atari B/W monitor, the text
> screen isn't that bad. There are limits to the number of windows you
> can conveniently use on such a small screen. And for a die-hard emacs
> and latex user as me, I can (and do) live with it.
There is no 'standard atari monitor'. There was, five years ago. Atari
users now have 1024x768 or more. BTW, how do you preview your LaTeX files?
In your head, I suppose?
> Chris Herborth writes:
> > But wouldn't it make more sense, for you, to find a really cheap used
> > '386 with 4M of RAM (_very_ common, and should be < $1000 almost anywhere)
> > and run Linux? You'd be able to set it up 100% UNIX right now, and you
> > wouldn't have to wait for the "MiNT goes UNIX" group (if it ever formed)
> > to get around to setting everything up.
>
> I *really* don't have the money at the moment. My financial situation
> is shakey enough as it is :-(, but this is of course the way to go,
> since any 68000 box is lacking power and ressources.
So you decide to spend 4 years trying to 'upgrade' MiNT to look as close to
UNIX as you can get. After four years, your STE breaks down. You buy a
septium machine or whatever they will have by that time.
> But this isn't really the issue. I'm not the only one interested in a
> unix-like solution, and MiNT is so deceivingly close already now. I
> will not be satisfied with the old ways, I just can't help it :-).
May I remind the right honourable gentleman that UNIX is much older than
TOS?
> Chris also writes:
> > > [...stuff about i) fs standards or ii) making porting/configuring easy...]
> > Definitely the second option, but I'd certainly settle for #1 in the
> > mean-time. :-)
>
> I do not see a contradiction here. For one, a decent bourne shell and
> a fully working test program, lets you configure most GNU software
> pretty easy, already now. But some fs standard would give additional
> benefits:
>
> 1) Less need of patching.
> Adding some environment variable requirement, probably means that you
> still need to patch even GNU packages, and this is somewhat a pain,
> when the next version of (say) the fileutils are out.
The patching time is hugely compensated by the time gained if you don't
use the GNU stuff but things as Mupfel and Pure C.
--
Annius V. Groenink | E-mail: avg@cwi.nl | Private & ZFC:
CWI, Kruislaan 413 | Office: M233 | P.O. Box 799
1098 SJ Amsterdam | Ext: 4077 | NL 3500 AT Utrecht
Netherland | Phone: +31 20 592 4077 | Phone: +31 30 803740